Podcast: Jeff Grant on The Bobby Jagdev Podcast in the U.K., “Drifting Between Liminal Communities” July 1, 2021

This episode is a must-listen if you, a friend, family member, colleague or client are going through criminal justice issues, or any life altering situation. Our discussion centered on identifying with and comparing the experiences of the white collar justice community to Bobby’s family of Sikh heritage. Bobby’s family migrated to England and found themselves strangers in a strange land, refugees living in liminalty between their old world and the new, between traditional and contemporary values, navigating prejudice and distrust.

Similarly, people prosecuted for white collar crimes and their families often find themselves stigmatized by their former friends and families, and the business community – people without a country, mourning the past and afraid of the future, struggling to find acceptance of the reality of their new and very difficult situations. It’s the isolation that destroys us. The solution is in community.  Link to podcast on Bobby Jagdev’s website: go.bobbyjagdev.com/ep17. – Jeff


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Meet Rev. Jeff Grant. Once a drifter. Now a traveler.

One who through suffering, pain and wreckage discovered a community. Hiding in the shadows. Under the abject shame of rejection. A community providing acceptance and belonging to fellow travelers.

Rev. Jeff is an ordained minister serving the white-collar justice community. His position holds a special reverence. His divinity – granted by the seminary – and protected by the state. Enables him to provide confidential counsel to those in need of crisis support. A crucial nexus for travellers that have just entered a liminal state.

Jeff’s own story is a rise, fall and rebirth of biblical proportions.

Once a big-time real-estate lawyer. Owner of his own firm and a restaurateur. His meritocratic rise was buckled by an addiction to prescription opioids.

An addiction that prompted poor judgement. As his firms’ cash-flow faltered and personal debts mounted. Ethical boundaries became blurred. Disbarred for re-appropriating client funds. And eventually jailed for fraudulently claiming 9/11 disaster relief funding.

The richness of his big-baller lifestyle soon disappeared. And through the ashes of devastation, a richness of spirit emerged…

I met Jeff through a mutual friend and old friend of the podcast; Craig Stanland. Craig was in fact one of the first travellers to have sought Jeff’s counsel. 

This is a conversation that drifts between two disparate liminal communities. The white-collar justice community and subjects of a diaspora. 

You may wonder, how do you draw a commonality between these two very distinct groups? The root cause of shifting liminal states is largely incomparable. However, acceptance, belonging and accountability are all very relatable. 

Whilst Jeff share’s his experiences within the white-collar justice community. I share my experiences of being a child of the Empire. And how our coerced liminal experiences impacted us, shaped our value systems and carved out routes of accountability.

This conversation took place on Easter Monday. Receiving blessings from an ordained Christian minister – regardless of my religious affiliation – was a real gift. 

Jeff is warmly spoken. His charisma is alluring. And his presences creates a safe space to express our inner spirit. That is Jeff’s gift.

A gift he doesn’t exercise through preaching. But by shepherding those seeking his counsel with the empowerment to realize this gift for themselves. 

A few weeks following the recording of this episode. The Supreme Court of the State New York reinstated Jeff’s license to practice law. Travelers seeking his counsel are now able to be served in greater ways. 

Blessed to welcome the first master of divinity and now practicing attorney as a new friend of the podcast. – Bobby Jagdev