“Jim, this certainly sounds strange coming from me, but I was a constant critic of Wall Street. I was a product of the corrupt culture of Wall Street.” – Bernie Madoff, in an email to Jim Campbell.
No name is more synonymous with the evil side of Wall Street than Bernie Madoff. Arrested for fraud in 2008—during the depths of the financial crisis—the 70-year old market maker, investment advisor and former chairman of the NASDAQ had orchestrated the largest Ponzi scheme in world history, fleecing thousands of investors across the globe to the tune of $65 billion. To this day, questions remain: Why did he do it? How did he get away with it for so long? What did his family know? Who is the elusive Bernie Madoff?
For the first time, Madoff has gone on the record to explain why and how he orchestrated the biggest Ponzi scheme in history. In over 400 pages of handwritten letters and emails between him and author Jim Campbell, Madoff shares never-before-heard details about his business and family and how he got away with committing fraud for so long.
Also, for the first time, Ruth Madoff, Andrew Madoff and Madoff’s lawyer, Ira Sorkin, reveal what they knew and if they were complicit.
“The question behind every fraud is why? For all the coverage of Bernie Madoff, the question still hangs in the air. Read Jim Campbell’s wonderfully reported book and you’ll finally get some answers.” – Bethany McLean, author of the best seller The Smartest Guys in the Room: The Amazing Rise and Scandalous Fall of Enron.
Even though we know how the story ends, Madoff Talks’ fast-paced, suspenseful narrative shows Madoff at his manipulative best: explaining, justifying and rationalizing his actions and behaviors. All the while, Campbell’s investigative work challenges and refutes Madoff’s claims. From his exhaustive research, Campbell offers more than 30 recommendations to individual investors to be smart with their money and to the SEC, SIPC, FINRA and feeder funds.
_________________________
Jim Campbell is the host of the nationally syndicated radio show Business Talk with Jim Campbell and his crime show Forensic Talk with Jim Campbell. He is known for his hard-hitting interviews of leading figures from the worlds of business, politics and sports. Known for “firsts,” Campbell snagged the first extensive interview with former New York Governor Eliot Spitzer after his resignation; the first interview with former Tyco CEO Denis Kozlowski after his release from prison; and the first broadcast interview with former stock analyst Roomy Kahn, a government informant in one of the biggest insider trading busts in American history.
Campbell’s extensive corporate, consulting and entrepreneurial business background includes roles at KPMG Consulting, Dean Witter Financial Services (now Morgan Stanley) and IBM. He is founder and president at JC Ventures, Inc., a management consulting business.
To reach Jim Campbell: campbell.james.o@gmail.com, (203) 249-0695
But my fears had less to do with the tragedy at the World Trade Center and more to do with the fact that, after 10 years of rampant prescription opioid abuse, my business was failing. I was searching desperately for an out. Meanwhile, the television and radio were blaring with ads for 9/11 FEMA loans administered by the U.S. Small Business Administration.
So, on an especially bad day, I lied.
I said I had an office near ground zero. I received the SBA loan I requested, and immediately paid down the personal credit cards I had run up while waiting for the SBA money. Even so, the loan did little to stop my spiral into drug addiction, mental health issues, marital problems and magical thinking.
In 2002, I resigned my law license and started on the road to recovery. But it all caught up with me about 20 months later, when I was arrested for the misrepresentations on my loan application. I served almost 14 months at a Federal prison for wire fraud and money laundering.
My objective in writing this piece is to offer some insight on what business owners should consider before they take out disaster loans. Certainly, the majority of people requesting these loans are honest and upstanding entrepreneurs who have immense need for the aid, and will use the funds properly. I am very glad there is help for them. That said, history has shown us again and again that when people are in dire need, they’re more prone to make impulsive, ill-advised decisions. My hope is that sharing my experience will help others avoid the consequences I faced. Here are seven takeaways.
1. Desperate people do desperate things.
There were thousands of fraud prosecutions after 9/11, Hurricane Katrina, Superstorm Sandy, and so on. Why? Whether because of overwhelming business issues, poor personal judgment, or just plain bad luck, people were wounded, desperate and willing to do anything, anything, to stop the bleeding. But if the wound is too deep, a Band-aid is not sufficient.
Practice point: In any situation, behaving desperately is unlikely to save your business.
2. Beware of the belief that rules are suspended in times of emergency.
The government is advertising that huge amounts of money are available to save our businesses. I recently sat in on a webinar run by a very reputable business consulting group that recommended that attendees get their SBA disaster loan applications in immediately, regardless of the facts or the actual needs of their business — they said we could always modify our applications prior to taking the money. State unemployment websites are actually giving instructions, in writing, on how to mislead and circumvent the system in order to get approved. Don’t take the bait! If you default two years from now, this “good-meaning advice” won’t matter to prosecutors.
Practice point: Be truthful at all times.
3. Beware of magical thinking.
This is a tough one because entrepreneurs are inherently optimistic. We believe that things will always be better tomorrow than they are today. It drives us, makes us successful, informs our risk-taking. But in times of trauma, that voice can be an entrepreneur’s worst enemy. Does this sound familiar? We have learned the hard way that there is no shortcut, and yet we desperately want there to be one right now.
Practice point: Instead of immediately reaching for a bailout or other quick fix, develop a good solid business plan. Maybe a disaster loan will fit into this plan; maybe it won’t.
4. This paradigm shift will affect all small to mid-size businesses.
We are in the midst of a massive reordering that has already had a huge effect on small and mid-sized businesses. Business owners are being called to closely examine if our business models are still viable, or if we must pivot to new ways of doing things. Example: the Swiss watch industry completely missed the shift to digital watches. Have we waited too long to have a robust online presence? Are our products or services even needed anymore? Have we been holding on by a thread for years, unwilling or unable to look at the hard facts?
Practice point: Get real, now. Don’t borrow money to save a business that can’t be saved.
5. Be cautious when borrowing from the government.
As is the case with any loan, the devil is in the details. The terms and covenants in the loan documents dictate what you can or can’t do with the money once you get it. You can only use the funds for the purposes you stated in your application — that is, to pay operating expenses of the business to keep it afloat until it starts bringing in sufficient revenue again. You (and your spouse) will probably have sign for the loan personally, and will probably have to pledge all available collateral, including a second (or third) mortgage on your house. If you maxed out your personal credit cards while anticipating your disaster relief funding, you can’t use the money to pay off your cards.
Practice point: Read the terms and covenants of the loan closely. Whatever the loan terms say to do, do, and whatever they say don’t do, don’t do. No exceptions.
6. We can’t save our businesses and our lifestyles at the same time.
Here’s the big trap. We have mortgages, car payments, school tuitions, and other personal expenses that have to be paid, and soon. But simply put, SBA loans are meant to save your business, not your lifestyle. Discuss all your options with advisors and friends you trust — ones that will tell you the truth! It’s like going to the doctor. Your diagnosis will only be as accurate as the history you provide. These are trying times, with a triage system designed to be more expeditious than thorough.
Practice point: There is no such thing as a free lunch. Borrowing money comes with responsibility and accountability.
7. Get acquainted with acceptance.
I hope we are all great entrepreneurs who can figure out ways to make our businesses survive and flourish. But let’s face it. Some of our businesses will not make it, even with the infusion of government funds. What should we do? We can pare down, embrace change and do things differently as we start a new chapter. Never forget that there will always be opportunity to start again, and to live a fuller, more abundant life.
Jeff Grant is on a mission. After a hiatus from practicing law, he is once again in private practice and is committed to using his legal expertise and life experience to benefit others.
Jeff provides a broad range of legal services in a highly attentive, personalized manner. These include private general counsel, white collar crisis management, strategy and team building, services to family-owned and closely-held businesses, and support to special situation and pro bono clients. He practices in New York and on authorized Federal matters, and works with local co-counsel and criminal defense counsel to represent clients throughout country.
For more than 20 years, Jeff served as managing attorney of a 20+ employee law firm headquartered in New York City and then Westchester County, New York. The firm’s practice areas included representing family-owned and closely-held businesses and their owners, business and real estate transactions, trusts and estates, and litigation.
Jeff is admitted to practice law in the State of New York, and in the Federal District Courts for the Southern District of New York and the Eastern District of New York. He is a member of the American Bar Association, the New York State Bar Association, the New York City Bar Association, and the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers.
The Philadelphia Inquirer: Steal Money from the Feds? First, Meet Jeff Grant, an Ex-Con who Committed Loan Fraud, by Erin Arvedlund: Link to article here.
Hannah Smolinski YouTube: Thinking About PPP Fraud?: Hannah Interviews Jeff Grant About Going to Prison for SBA Loan Fraud. Link to article and YouTube video here.
Fraud Stories Podcast with Mark Lurie: SBA/PPP Loan Fraud with Guest: Jeff Grant. Link to podcast here.
Forbes: As Law Enforcement Pursues SBA Loan Fraud, Jeff Grant Talks Redemption, by Kelly Phillips Erb. Link to article here.
Taxgirl Podcast: Jeff Grant talks Desperation and Loans in a Time of Crisis with Kelly Phillips Erb on Her Podcast. Link to article and podcast here.
Business Talk with Jim Campbell: Jeff Grant Talks with Jim About Going to Prison for SBA Loan Fraud and What to Know When Taking Coronavirus Relief Money, Biz Talk Radio Network, Broadcast from 1490 AM WGCH Greenwich, CT. Listen on YouTube here.
Babz Rawls Ivy Show: Babz Rawls Ivy & Jeff Grant Talk SBA / PPP Loan Fraud and 7 Things to Know Before You Take Coronavirus Relief Money, WNHH 103.5 FM New Haven. Watch on YouTube here.
Also: White Collar Week with Jeff Grant, Podcast Ep. 09: Small Business Edition, with Guest Kelly Phillips Erb. Link here.
Also, White Collar Week with Jeff Grant, Podcast Ep. 21: All Things SBA, PPP & EIDL, with Guest Hannah Smolinski. Link here.
“Business Talk with Jim Campbell” – syndicated nationally on the BizTalkRadio.com Network with over 300 affiliate stations, and “Forensic Talk with Jim Campbell” Monday April 27th 6 – 7 pm on 1490 AM WGCH Greenwich, WGCH.com. 1490 AM WGCH Greenwich, CT. Show features leaders in the worlds of business, politics and sports. For weekly email blast on show guests, send email to: jamesocampbell@CampbellBizTalk.com.
Listen on YouTube:
Show Notes:
Jeffrey D. Grant, Esq., GrantLaw, PLLC
43 West 43rd Street, Suite 108, New York, NY 10036-7424
Jeff is an attorney and counselor-at-law providing private general counsel, legal crisis management, and dispute strategy and management services to individuals and families, real estate organizations, family-owned and closely-held businesses, the white collar justice community, and special situation and pro bono clients
Now again in private practice, for over 20 years Jeff served as managing attorney of a 20+ employee law firm headquartered in New York City, and then Westchester County, NY. Among other practice areas, the firm engaged in representation of family-owned/closely held businesses and their owners, business and real estate transactions, trusts and estates, and litigation. Jeff also served as outside General Counsel to large family-owned real estate equities, management and brokerage organizations, in which role he retained, coordinated and oversaw the work of many specialty law firms, including white collar defense firms.
After an addiction to prescription opioids and serving almost fourteen months in a Federal prison (2006 – 07) for a white-collar crime he committed in 2001, Jeff started his own reentry – earning a Master of Divinity from Union Theological Seminary in the City of New York, majoring in Social Ethics. After graduating from divinity school, Jeff was called to serve at an inner city church in Bridgeport, CT as Associate Minister and Director of Prison Ministries. He then co-founded Progressive Prison Ministries, Inc. (Greenwich, CT), the world’s first ministry serving the white collar justice community.
On May 5, 2021, Jeff’s law license was reinstated by the Appellate Division of the Supreme Court of the State of New York.
Entrepreneur’s #4 Most Viewed Article of 2020: I Went to Prison for S.B.A. Loan Fraud: 7 Things to Know When Taking COVID-19 Relief Money: by Jeff Grant, April 2020: https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/350337
White Collar Support Group Website Page: We held our 250th online support group meeting in March 2021. We have had over 310 participants, and average about 25 attendees at each meeting: https://prisonist.org/white-collar-support-group/
Episodes of White Collar Week Podcast (video & audio):
Jim Campbell has been an incredible friend to the white collar justice community, bringing unbiased and non-sensationalized truth and light to complicated subject matter. He has brought compassion and empathy to people going through the most difficult times of their lives – without ever compromising his journalistic integrity. I have had the grace and good fortune of being interviewed by Jim for his nationally syndicated business radio shows, and on his local newscasts at WGCH, his home radio station in Greenwich, CT. Jim has also been a guest on our White Collar Week podcast, links to YouTube (video) and podcast below.
I have read a review copy of his new book, Madoff Talks: Uncovering the Untold Story Behind the Most Notorious Ponzi Scheme in History (available for pre-order now) and it is an absolute must-read for those of us in the white collar justice community – and for everyone else who wants to truly understand not only Bernie Madoff the man, his crimes and his pathology, but also the systematic breakdown of every safeguard the government and Wall Street were supposed to have in place to protect us. Five stars! – Jeff
In the twelve years from gaining the most extensive media access to Bernie, Ruth and Andrew Madoff, in “Madoff Talks,” I uncovered a seeming endless stream of often shocking, little-known, revelations in the largely untold story behind the most notorious Ponzi scheme in history. “Madoff Talks” for the first time reveals whether Ruth, Andrew, or Mark Madoff were complicit in any way in the Ponzi scheme. It delves into: why Bernie got on the path to Ponzi; how Bernie did it for so long; how his crimes were uncovered; and includes the systemic failure on Wall Street and among the regulators. It puts Bernie on the couch and examines how he could be have built legitimate and criminal businesses side-by-side; and how he was more complex than just a sociopath. – Jim Campbell
Jim, this certainly sounds strange coming from me, but I was a constant critic of Wall Street. I was a product of the corrupt culture of Wall Street.” – Bernie Madoff, in an email to Jim Campbell
Longtime Wall Street sales maven Frank Casey, blessed with an Irish flair for anecdotes, coupled with an ability to reduce financial complexities to simple common sense, was the first to uncover that Bernard L. Madoff was not who he seemed to be. It was November of 1999, a full decade before the fall of Madoff. Frank was making a sales call to gather assets for a hedge fund at the New York City office of the aristocratic French money manager René-Thierry Magon de La Villehuchet. René was an old-style gentleman. His word was his bond. Trust was his currency. He invested that trust with Bernie Madoff.
Rene’s mellifluous name and bearing was only outdone by the upper-crust and royal families of Europe he counted among his trusting customers. René ran what was to become known as one of the first Madoff “feeder funds,” money managers who would funnel investors’ assets into the hands of Bernie Madoff and his secretive hedge fund. At the time, it was still largely unknown that Madoff was even in the hedge fund business, much less that he was running one of the biggest operations in the world behind locked doors on the seventeenth floor of the distinctive, oval-shaped “Lipstick Building” in midtown Manhattan, home to Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities. The secrecy and security on the seventeenth floor was so extensive that even Madoff ’s sons, Mark and Andrew, who ran the big market making and proprietary trading operation up on the nineteenth floor – where Madoff made his name as a market maker executing trades for the likes of Charles Schwab & Company—lacked electronic key-card access.
Frank Casey’s Boston-based hedge fund, Rampart Investment Management, was, without his knowledge, a competitor of Madoff ’s invisible investment advisory business. The Frenchman demurred to Casey’s sales pitch. He wasn’t interested in working with a different fund manager, as he had found one with a seemingly uniquely reliable performance record. He had already put all his clients’ assets into just that one fund, an unusual risk for a fund of funds manager, as it left his investors undiversified. Unusually, René was not allowed to reveal the identity of the fund manager, or he would be thrown out of the fund, along with his investors’ money.
There was a compelling reason René found it unnecessary to diversify funds, though it was not related to the benefit of his investors. Inexplicably in the world of hedge funds, the secretive hedge fund manager had opted to forgo taking any of the lucrative management fees that made “hedgies” some of the richest guys on earth. Rather, he passed them on to the feeder funds. This decision was an unimaginably good deal for René. Hedge funds normally charged exorbitant fees, referred to as “2 and 20”—meaning 2 percent of assets under management, plus 20 percent of the gains (while suffering none of the losses).
Passing all that on to the feeders was tantamount to kickbacks. This book tells the full story of the feeder fund corruption for the first time. After listening to René describe the strategy and investment performance of the hidden fund, to Frank, it immediately reeked of “too good to be true.” Frank smelled a financial rat. He intuitively sensed implausible results. René remained adamant. He implicitly trusted this apparent Wizard of Wall Street operating behind a curtain of anonymity.
Then, as fate would have it, René was distracted by a phone call a few minutes later. Frank surreptitiously turned over one of the papers on a clerk’s desk revealing a financial statement with the name “Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities.” Frank hadn’t heard of Bernard L. Madoff at the time. All Frank sensed was that this guy’s investment returns could “not be market-driven.” That’s Wall Street speak for fraud.
Casey proceeded to share his findings with his boss, Harry Markopolos, the quant savant who managed the fund at Rampart and would go on to notoriety as the whistleblower whom the SEC chose not to listen to. Harry did a deep dive into the statistical likelihood whether Madoff ’s strategy could produce the returns René was convinced he could trust.
The chase for Madoff and the truth was on. For Harry, it would become an obsession. For René, the results would be tragic. Less than two weeks after Madoff ’s arrest, he would commit suicide in his New York office. It was a matter of honor after his investors lost $1.8 billion with his “trusted friend.” Readers will be surprised just how much they don’t know about the complete Madoff story…
New York, New York – April 2021. “Jim, this certainly sounds strange coming from me, but I was a constant critic of Wall Street. I was a product of the corrupt culture of Wall Street.”– Bernie Madoff, in an email to Jim Campbell
No name is more synonymous with the evil side of Wall Street than Bernie Madoff. Arrested for fraud in 2008—during the depths of the financial crisis—the 70-year old market maker, investment advisor and former chairman of the NASDAQ had
orchestrated the largest Ponzi scheme in world history, fleecing thousands of investors across the globe to the tune of $65 billion. To this day, questions remain: Why did he do it? How did he get away with it for so long? What did his family know? Who is the elusive Bernie Madoff?
For the first time, Madoff has gone on the record to explain why and how he orchestrated the biggest Ponzi scheme in history. In over 400 pages of handwritten letters and emails between him and author Jim Campbell, Madoff shares never-before-heard details about his business and family and how he got away with committing fraud for so long.
Also, for the first time, Ruth Madoff, Andrew Madoff and Madoff’s lawyer, Ira Sorkin, reveal what they knew and if they were complicit.
“The question behind every fraud is why? For all the coverage of Bernie Madoff, the question still hangs in the air. Read Jim Campbell’s wonderfully reported book and you’ll finally get some answers.” – Bethany McLean, author of the best seller The Smartest Guys in the Room: The Amazing Rise and Scandalous Fall of Enron.
Even though we know how the story ends, Madoff Talks’ fast-paced, suspenseful narrative shows Madoff at his manipulative best: explaining, justifying and rationalizing his actions and behaviors. All the while, Campbell’s investigative work challenges and refutes Madoff’s claims. From his exhaustive research, Campbell offers more than 30 recommendations to individual investors to be smart with their money and to the SEC, SIPC, FINRA and feeder funds.
About the Author
Jim Campbell is the host of the nationally syndicated radio show Business Talk with Jim Campbell and his crime show Forensic Talk with Jim Campbell. He is known for his hard-hitting interviews of leading figures from the worlds of business, politics and sports. Known for “firsts,” Campbell snagged the first extensive interview with former New York Governor Eliot Spitzer after his resignation; the first interview with former Tyco CEO Denis Kozlowski after his release from prison; and the first broadcast interview with former stock analyst Roomy Kahn, a government informant in one of the biggest insider trading busts in American history.
Campbell’s extensive corporate, consulting and entrepreneurial business background includes roles at KPMG Consulting, Dean Witter Financial Services (now Morgan Stanley) and IBM. He is founder and president at JC Ventures, Inc., a management consulting business.
Best of White Collar Week with Jeff Grant: From July 2020
Podcast Ep. 06: Madoff Talks, with Guest: Jim Campbell
Today on the podcast we have Jim Campbell, a radio host and journalist based in Greenwich, Connecticut, who hosts a nationally syndicated business affairs show, Business Talk with Jim Campbell. He also hosts another show, Forensic Talk, that dives into the world of financial crimes. It’s probably not surprising that Jim and I are friends, and that he has interviewed me on both of his shows.
Today we turn the tables and Jim the interviewer becomes Jim the guest, as we talk about his upcoming book, Madoff Talks: Uncovering the Untold Story Behind the Most Notorious Ponzi Scheme in History. Jim’s book will be published April 2021 (McGraw Hill). He is now putting the finishing touches on his multi-year dialogue with Bernie Madoff in prison, Bernie’s wife Ruth Madoff, and Bernie’s late son Andrew Madoff, as well as government investigators, lawyers, witnesses, and most importantly, the victims. While Jim has culled over 400 pages of actual emails with Bernie Madoff – and presents Madoff’s words verbatim – he never accepts any of it at face value. Jim investigates the truth behind the man, the family, the fraud, and the systemic breakdown of the SEC, big banks, and every watchdog that had the obligation and opportunity to stop the fraud before more people got hurt. But failed.
The Bernie Madoff story was, and remains, one of the biggest tales of grandiosity and greed that Wall Street has ever known, and certainly the largest Ponzi scheme in history. And we have an inside, up-close look on today’s podcast.
So, coming up, Madoff Talks, with our guest Jim Campbell. On White Collar Week. I hope you will join us. – Jeff
Opinions expressed by Entrepreneur contributors are their own.
In the months after 9/11, I was frantic.
But my fears had less to do with the tragedy at the World Trade Center and more to do with the fact that, after 10 years of rampant prescription opioid abuse, my business was failing. I was searching desperately for an out. Meanwhile, the television and radio were blaring with ads for 9/11 FEMA loans administered by the U.S. Small Business Administration.
So, on an especially bad day, I lied.
I said I had an office near ground zero. I received the SBA loan I requested, and immediately paid down the personal credit cards I had run up while waiting for the SBA money. Even so, the loan did little to stop my spiral into drug addiction, mental health issues, marital problems and magical thinking.
In 2002, I resigned my law license and started on the road to recovery. But it all caught up with me about 20 months later, when I was arrested for the misrepresentations on my loan application. I served almost 14 months at a Federal prison for wire fraud and money laundering.
My objective in writing this piece is to offer some insight on what business owners should consider before they take out disaster loans. Certainly, the majority of people requesting these loans are honest and upstanding entrepreneurs who have immense need for the aid, and will use the funds properly. I am very glad there is help for them. That said, history has shown us again and again that when people are in dire need, they’re more prone to make impulsive, ill-advised decisions. My hope is that sharing my experience will help others avoid the consequences I faced. Here are seven takeaways.
1. Desperate people do desperate things.
There were thousands of fraud prosecutions after 9/11, Hurricane Katrina, Superstorm Sandy, and so on. Why? Whether because of overwhelming business issues, poor personal judgment, or just plain bad luck, people were wounded, desperate and willing to do anything, anything, to stop the bleeding. But if the wound is too deep, a Band-aid is not sufficient.
Practice point: In any situation, behaving desperately is unlikely to save your business.
2. Beware of the belief that rules are suspended in times of emergency.
The government is advertising that huge amounts of money are available to save our businesses. I recently sat in on a webinar run by a very reputable business consulting group that recommended that attendees get their SBA disaster loan applications in immediately, regardless of the facts or the actual needs of their business — they said we could always modify our applications prior to taking the money. State unemployment websites are actually giving instructions, in writing, on how to mislead and circumvent the system in order to get approved. Don’t take the bait! If you default two years from now, this “good-meaning advice” won’t matter to prosecutors.
Practice point: Be truthful at all times.
3. Beware of magical thinking.
This is a tough one because entrepreneurs are inherently optimistic. We believe that things will always be better tomorrow than they are today. It drives us, makes us successful, informs our risk-taking. But in times of trauma, that voice can be an entrepreneur’s worst enemy. Does this sound familiar? We have learned the hard way that there is no shortcut, and yet we desperately want there to be one right now.
Practice point: Instead of immediately reaching for a bailout or other quick fix, develop a good solid business plan. Maybe a disaster loan will fit into this plan; maybe it won’t.
4. This paradigm shift will affect all small to mid-size businesses.
We are in the midst of a massive reordering that has already had a huge effect on small and mid-sized businesses. Business owners are being called to closely examine if our business models are still viable, or if we must pivot to new ways of doing things. Example: the Swiss watch industry completely missed the shift to digital watches. Have we waited too long to have a robust online presence? Are our products or services even needed anymore? Have we been holding on by a thread for years, unwilling or unable to look at the hard facts?
Practice point: Get real, now. Don’t borrow money to save a business that can’t be saved.
5. Be cautious when borrowing from the government.
As is the case with any loan, the devil is in the details. The terms and covenants in the loan documents dictate what you can or can’t do with the money once you get it. You can only use the funds for the purposes you stated in your application — that is, to pay operating expenses of the business to keep it afloat until it starts bringing in sufficient revenue again. You (and your spouse) will probably have sign for the loan personally, and will probably have to pledge all available collateral, including a second (or third) mortgage on your house. If you maxed out your personal credit cards while anticipating your disaster relief funding, you can’t use the money to pay off your cards.
Practice point: Read the terms and covenants of the loan closely. Whatever the loan terms say to do, do, and whatever they say don’t do, don’t do. No exceptions.
6. We can’t save our businesses and our lifestyles at the same time.
Here’s the big trap. We have mortgages, car payments, school tuitions, and other personal expenses that have to be paid, and soon. But simply put, SBA loans are meant to save your business, not your lifestyle. Discuss all your options with advisors and friends you trust — ones that will tell you the truth! It’s like going to the doctor. Your diagnosis will only be as accurate as the history you provide. These are trying times, with a triage system designed to be more expeditious than thorough.
Practice point: There is no such thing as a free lunch. Borrowing money comes with responsibility and accountability.
7. Get acquainted with acceptance.
I hope we are all great entrepreneurs who can figure out ways to make our businesses survive and flourish. But let’s face it. Some of our businesses will not make it, even with the infusion of government funds. What should we do? We can pare down, embrace change and do things differently as we start a new chapter. Never forget that there will always be opportunity to start again, and to live a fuller, more abundant life.
Jeff Grant, J.D., M.Div. is Co-Founder of Progressive Prison Ministries, Inc., the world’s first ministry serving the white collar justice community. The ministry hosts an online White Collar Support Group every Monday night. After an addiction to prescription opioids and serving almost fourteen months in a Federal prison for SBA loan fraud he committed post-9/11 when he was a lawyer, Jeff started his own reentry — earning a Master of Divinity from Union Theological Seminary in the City of New York with a focus in Social Ethics.
Jeff has over three decades of experience in crisis management, business, law (former), reentry, recovery (clean & sober 17+ years), public speaking and corporate training. Sometimes referred to in the press as “The Minister to Hedge Funders,” he uses his experience and background to guide individuals, families and organizations forward in their lives, relationships, careers and business opportunities, and to help them to stop making the kinds of decisions that previously resulted in loss, suffering and shame.
____________________
More on SBA PPP & EIDL Loan Fraud:
The Philadelphia Inquirer: Steal Money from the Feds? First, Meet Jeff Grant, an Ex-Con who Committed Loan Fraud, by Erin Arvedlund: Link to article here.
Hannah Smolinski YouTube: Thinking About PPP Fraud?: Hannah Interviews Jeff Grant About Going to Prison for SBA Loan Fraud. Link to article and YouTube video here.
Fraud Stories Podcast with Mark Lurie: SBA/PPP Loan Fraud with Guest: Jeff Grant. Link to podcast here.
Forbes: As Law Enforcement Pursues SBA Loan Fraud, Jeff Grant Talks Redemption, by Kelly Phillips Erb. Link to article here.
Taxgirl Podcast: Jeff Grant talks Desperation and Loans in a Time of Crisis with Kelly Phillips Erb on Her Podcast. Link to article and podcast here.
Business Talk with Jim Campbell: Jeff Grant Talks with Jim About Going to Prison for SBA Loan Fraud and What to Know When Taking Coronavirus Relief Money, Biz Talk Radio Network, Broadcast from 1490 AM WGCH Greenwich, CT. Listen on YouTube here.
Babz Rawls Ivy Show: Babz Rawls Ivy & Jeff Grant Talk SBA / PPP Loan Fraud and 7 Things to Know Before You Take Coronavirus Relief Money, WNHH 103.5 FM New Haven. Watch on YouTube here.
Also: White Collar Week with Jeff Grant, Podcast Ep. 09: Small Business Edition, with Guest Kelly Phillips Erb. Link here.
Also, White Collar Week with Jeff Grant, Podcast Ep. 21: All Things SBA, PPP & EIDL, with Guest Hannah Smolinski. Link here.
Opinions expressed by Entrepreneur contributors are their own.
In the months after 9/11, I was frantic.
But my fears had less to do with the tragedy at the World Trade Center and more to do with the fact that, after 10 years of rampant prescription opioid abuse, my business was failing. I was searching desperately for an out. Meanwhile, the television and radio were blaring with ads for 9/11 FEMA loans administered by the U.S. Small Business Administration.
So, on an especially bad day, I lied.
I said I had an office near ground zero. I received the SBA loan I requested, and immediately paid down the personal credit cards I had run up while waiting for the SBA money. Even so, the loan did little to stop my spiral into drug addiction, mental health issues, marital problems and magical thinking.
In 2002, I resigned my law license and started on the road to recovery. But it all caught up with me about 20 months later, when I was arrested for the misrepresentations on my loan application. I served almost 14 months at a Federal prison for wire fraud and money laundering.
My objective in writing this piece is to offer some insight on what business owners should consider before they take out disaster loans. Certainly, the majority of people requesting these loans are honest and upstanding entrepreneurs who have immense need for the aid, and will use the funds properly. I am very glad there is help for them. That said, history has shown us again and again that when people are in dire need, they’re more prone to make impulsive, ill-advised decisions. My hope is that sharing my experience will help others avoid the consequences I faced. Here are seven takeaways.
1. Desperate people do desperate things.
There were thousands of fraud prosecutions after 9/11, Hurricane Katrina, Superstorm Sandy, and so on. Why? Whether because of overwhelming business issues, poor personal judgment, or just plain bad luck, people were wounded, desperate and willing to do anything, anything, to stop the bleeding. But if the wound is too deep, a Band-aid is not sufficient.
Practice point: In any situation, behaving desperately is unlikely to save your business.
2. Beware of the belief that rules are suspended in times of emergency.
The government is advertising that huge amounts of money are available to save our businesses. I recently sat in on a webinar run by a very reputable business consulting group that recommended that attendees get their SBA disaster loan applications in immediately, regardless of the facts or the actual needs of their business — they said we could always modify our applications prior to taking the money. State unemployment websites are actually giving instructions, in writing, on how to mislead and circumvent the system in order to get approved. Don’t take the bait! If you default two years from now, this “good-meaning advice” won’t matter to prosecutors.
Practice point: Be truthful at all times.
3. Beware of magical thinking.
This is a tough one because entrepreneurs are inherently optimistic. We believe that things will always be better tomorrow than they are today. It drives us, makes us successful, informs our risk-taking. But in times of trauma, that voice can be an entrepreneur’s worst enemy. Does this sound familiar? We have learned the hard way that there is no shortcut, and yet we desperately want there to be one right now.
Practice point: Instead of immediately reaching for a bailout or other quick fix, develop a good solid business plan. Maybe a disaster loan will fit into this plan; maybe it won’t.
4. This paradigm shift will affect all small to mid-size businesses.
We are in the midst of a massive reordering that has already had a huge effect on small and mid-sized businesses. Business owners are being called to closely examine if our business models are still viable, or if we must pivot to new ways of doing things. Example: the Swiss watch industry completely missed the shift to digital watches. Have we waited too long to have a robust online presence? Are our products or services even needed anymore? Have we been holding on by a thread for years, unwilling or unable to look at the hard facts?
Practice point: Get real, now. Don’t borrow money to save a business that can’t be saved.
5. Be cautious when borrowing from the government.
As is the case with any loan, the devil is in the details. The terms and covenants in the loan documents dictate what you can or can’t do with the money once you get it. You can only use the funds for the purposes you stated in your application — that is, to pay operating expenses of the business to keep it afloat until it starts bringing in sufficient revenue again. You (and your spouse) will probably have sign for the loan personally, and will probably have to pledge all available collateral, including a second (or third) mortgage on your house. If you maxed out your personal credit cards while anticipating your disaster relief funding, you can’t use the money to pay off your cards.
Practice point: Read the terms and covenants of the loan closely. Whatever the loan terms say to do, do, and whatever they say don’t do, don’t do. No exceptions.
6. We can’t save our businesses and our lifestyles at the same time.
Here’s the big trap. We have mortgages, car payments, school tuitions, and other personal expenses that have to be paid, and soon. But simply put, SBA loans are meant to save your business, not your lifestyle. Discuss all your options with advisors and friends you trust — ones that will tell you the truth! It’s like going to the doctor. Your diagnosis will only be as accurate as the history you provide. These are trying times, with a triage system designed to be more expeditious than thorough.
Practice point: There is no such thing as a free lunch. Borrowing money comes with responsibility and accountability.
7. Get acquainted with acceptance.
I hope we are all great entrepreneurs who can figure out ways to make our businesses survive and flourish. But let’s face it. Some of our businesses will not make it, even with the infusion of government funds. What should we do? We can pare down, embrace change and do things differently as we start a new chapter. Never forget that there will always be opportunity to start again, and to live a fuller, more abundant life.
Jeff Grant, J.D., M.Div. is Co-Founder of Progressive Prison Ministries, Inc., the world’s first ministry serving the white collar justice community. The ministry hosts an online White Collar Support Group every Monday night. After an addiction to prescription opioids and serving almost fourteen months in a Federal prison for SBA loan fraud he committed post-9/11 when he was a lawyer, Jeff started his own reentry — earning a Master of Divinity from Union Theological Seminary in the City of New York with a focus in Social Ethics.
Jeff has over three decades of experience in crisis management, business, law (former), reentry, recovery (clean & sober 17+ years), public speaking and corporate training. Sometimes referred to in the press as “The Minister to Hedge Funders,” he uses his experience and background to guide individuals, families and organizations forward in their lives, relationships, careers and business opportunities, and to help them to stop making the kinds of decisions that previously resulted in loss, suffering and shame.
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More on SBA PPP & EIDL Loan Fraud:
The Philadelphia Inquirer: Steal Money from the Feds? First, Meet Jeff Grant, an Ex-Con who Committed Loan Fraud, by Erin Arvedlund: Link to article here.
Hannah Smolinski YouTube: Thinking About PPP Fraud?: Hannah Interviews Jeff Grant About Going to Prison for SBA Loan Fraud. Link to article and YouTube video here.
Fraud Stories Podcast with Mark Lurie: SBA/PPP Loan Fraud with Guest: Jeff Grant. Link to podcast here.
Forbes: As Law Enforcement Pursues SBA Loan Fraud, Jeff Grant Talks Redemption, by Kelly Phillips Erb. Link to article here.
Taxgirl Podcast: Jeff Grant talks Desperation and Loans in a Time of Crisis with Kelly Phillips Erb on Her Podcast. Link to article and podcast here.
Business Talk with Jim Campbell: Jeff Grant Talks with Jim About Going to Prison for SBA Loan Fraud and What to Know When Taking Coronavirus Relief Money, Biz Talk Radio Network, Broadcast from 1490 AM WGCH Greenwich, CT. Listen on YouTube here.
Babz Rawls Ivy Show: Babz Rawls Ivy & Jeff Grant Talk SBA / PPP Loan Fraud and 7 Things to Know Before You Take Coronavirus Relief Money, WNHH 103.5 FM New Haven. Watch on YouTube here.
Also: White Collar Week with Jeff Grant, Podcast Ep. 09: Small Business Edition, with Guest Kelly Phillips Erb. Link here.
Also, White Collar Week with Jeff Grant, Podcast Ep. 21: All Things SBA, PPP & EIDL, with Guest Hannah Smolinski. Link here.
White Collar Week with Jeff Grant A Podcast Serving the White Collar Justice Community
Limited 10-Episode Run: Summer 2020
It’s the Isolation that Destroys Us. The Solution is in Community.
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Podcast Ep. 06: Madoff Talks, with Guest: Jim Campbell
Today on the podcast we have Jim Campbell, a radio host and journalist based in Greenwich, Connecticut, who hosts a nationally syndicated business affairs show, Business Talk with Jim Campbell. He also hosts another show, Forensic Talk, that dives into the world of financial crimes. It’s probably not surprising that Jim and I are friends, and that he has interviewed me on both of his shows.
Today we turn the tables and Jim the interviewer becomes Jim the guest, as we talk about his upcoming book, Madoff Talks: Uncovering the Untold Story Behind the Most Notorious Ponzi Scheme in History. Jim’s book will be published April 2021 (McGraw Hill). He is now putting the finishing touches on his multi-year dialogue with Bernie Madoff in prison, Bernie’s wife Ruth Madoff, and Bernie’s late son Andrew Madoff, as well as government investigators, lawyers, witnesses, and most importantly, the victims. While Jim has culled over 400 pages of actual emails with Bernie Madoff – and presents Madoff’s words verbatim – he never accepts any of it at face value. Jim investigates the truth behind the man, the family, the fraud, and the systemic breakdown of the SEC, big banks, and every watchdog that had the obligation and opportunity to stop the fraud before more people got hurt. But failed.
The Bernie Madoff story was, and remains, one of the biggest tales of grandiosity and greed that Wall Street has ever known, and certainly the largest Ponzi scheme in history. And we have an inside, up-close look on today’s podcast.
So, coming up, Madoff Talks, with our guest Jim Campbell. On White Collar Week. I hope you will join us. – Jeff
Since 2008, Jim Campbell has been the host of the nationally syndicated radio show: “Business Talk with Jim Campbell”, over the Biz Talk Radio Network which has 350 affiliated radio stations in the U.S. He is known for “Taking on Wall Street and Washington from the Radical Center” with interviews of leading figures from the worlds of business, politics and sports. The show features challenging, in-depth interviews and “deep dives” on matters of global importance, tackling big issues without the extremist distortions of so much talk radio. His subjects have ranged from crime on Wall Street to Kremlin intrigues in Putin’s criminal state of Russia, to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, to major CEOs, and leading authors of books on business, politics and sports.
He’s known for “firsts” – the first extensive interview with former NY Governor Eliot Spitzer after his resignation. The first interview with former TYCO CEO Dennis Kozlowski after his release from prison. The first broadcast interview with one of the major participants in the biggest insider trading scandal in Wall Street history – Roomy Khan of the Raj Rajaratnam case – after her release from prison.
New York Times Chief White House Correspondent Peter Baker, calls Jim: “The gold standard in broadcasting”. His nationally renowned guests consistently call his interviews among the best they’ve ever had.
He’s also the host of the crime show: “Forensic Talk with Jim Campbell” – on 1490 WGCH Greenwich, covering Fairfield County, CT and Westchester County, NY. The show features inside looks into financial crimes; unsolved high profile murder cases; international political crimes and other major scandals – with the same attention to unbiased facts and forensics he’s known for on “Biz Talk with Jim Campbell”. In other words, a brand extension into the ever popular world of crime shows.
He is Assistant News Director at 1490 AM Greenwich, CT radio.
He has a book coming out from McGraw Hill: “Madoff Talks: Uncovering the Untold Story Behind the Most Notorious Ponzi Scheme in History.” Pre-order Madoff Talks on Amazon.com here.
He has a BA, Magna Cum Laude, from Tufts University, and an MBA from the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth. Jim Campbell can be reached at jimcampbellradio@gmail.com.
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You can find all episodes of our podcast “White Collar Week with Jeff Grant” on our website prisonist.org, our Facebook page, Podbean, YouTube (video), SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, LinkedIn, Instagram and Twitter.
Some very kind words from my dear friends Louis L. Reed and Babz Rawls Ivy in this brief PSA. Thank you Louis and Babz! – Jeff
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All Episodes:
Link here to Podcast Ep. 20: Glenn E. Martin & Richard Bronson: Reinventing Yourself After Prison
Link here to Podcast Ep. 19: Insider Trading Charges Dismissed, with Guest Richard Lee
Link here to Podcast Ep. 18: Is Your Life a Movie? The Producers, with Guests: Lydia B. Smith, Bethany Jones & Will Nix
Link here to Podcast Ep. 17: #TruthHeals: Systemic Abuse & Institutional Reform with Vanessa Osage, feat. Guest Co-Host Chloe Coppola
Link here to Podcast Ep. 16: Politicians, Prison & Penitence, with Guest: Bridgeport, CT Mayor Joseph Ganim
Link here to Podcast Ep. 15: A Brave Talk About Suicide, with Guests Bob Flanagan, Elizabeth Kelley, & Meredith Atwood
Link here to Podcast Ep. 14: Recovery & Neighborhood, with Guest: TNP’s Tom Scott
Link here to Podcast Ep. 13: Everything but Bridgegate, with Guest: Bill Baroni
Link here to Podcast Ep. 12: The Truth Tellers, with Guests: Holli Coulman & Larry Levine
Link here to Podcast Ep. 11: The Blank Canvas, with Guest: Craig Stanland
Link here to Podcast Ep. 10: The Ministers, with Guests: Father Joe Ciccone & Father Rix Thorsell
Link here to Podcast Ep. 09: Small Business Edition, with Guest: Taxgirl Kelly Phillips Erb
Link here to Podcast Ep. 08: The Academics, with Guests: Cathryn Lavery, Jessica Henry, Jay Kennedy & Erin Harbinson
Link here to Podcast Ep. 07: White Collar Wives. with Guests: Lynn Springer, Cassie Monaco & Julie Bennett. Special Guest: Skylar Cluett
Link here to Podcast Ep. 06: Madoff Talks, with Guest: Jim Campbell
Link here to Podcast Ep. 05: Trauma and Healing when Mom goes to Prison, with Guests: Jacqueline Polverari and Her Daughters, Alexa & Maria
Link here to Podcast Ep. 04: One-on-One with Tipper X: Tom Hardin
Link here to Podcast Ep. 03: Compassionate Lawyering: Guests, Chris Poulos, Corey Brinson, Bob Herbst & George Hritz
Link here to Podcast Ep. 02: Substance Abuse & Recovery During COVID-19: Guests, Trevor Shevin & Joshua Cagney
Link here to Podcast Ep. 01: Prison & Reentry in the Age of COVID-19: An Evening with Our White Collar Support Group.
Link here to Podcast Ep. 00: White Collar Week with Jeff Grant: What is White Collar Week?
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Welcome to White Collar Week with Jeff Grant, a podcast serving the white collar justice community. It’s the isolation that destroys us. The solution is in community.
If you are interested in this podcast, then you are probably already a member of the white collar justice community – even if you don’t quite know it yet. Our community is certainly made up of people being prosecuted, or who have already been prosecuted, for white collar crimes. But it is also made up of the spouses, children and families of those prosecuted for white collar crimes – these are the first victims of white collar crime. And the community also consists of the other victims, both direct and indirect, and those in the wider white collar ecosystem like friends, colleagues, prosecutors, defense attorneys, judges, law enforcement, academics, researchers. Investigators, mitigation experts, corrections officers, reentry professionals, mental health care professionals, drug and alcohol counselors, – and ministers, chaplains and advocates for criminal and social justice reform. The list goes on and on…
In this very eventful summer 2020, our mission is to introduce you to other members of the white collar justice community, to hear their very personal stories, and hopefully gain a broader perspective of what this is really all about. Maybe this will inspire some deeper thoughts and introspection? Maybe it will inspire some empathy and compassion for people you might otherwise resent or dismiss? And maybe it will help lift us all out of our own isolation and into community, so we can learn to live again in the sunshine of the spirit.
Along the way, I’ll share with you some of the things I’ve learned in my own journey from successful lawyer, to prescription opioid addict, white collar crime, suicide attempt, disbarment, destruction of my marriage, and the almost 14 months I served in a Federal prison. And also my recovery, love story I share with my wife Lynn Springer, after prison earning a Master of Divinity from Union Theological Seminary in NYC, pastoring in an inner city church in Bridgeport CT, and then co-founding with Lynn in Greenwich CT, Progressive Prison Ministries, the world’s first ministry serving the white collar justice community. It’s been quite a ride, but I firmly believe that the best is yet to come.
So I invite you to come along with me as we experience something new, and bold, and different this summer – a podcast that serves the entire white collar justice community. I hope you will join me.
Progressive Prison Ministries, Inc. is the world’s first ministry supporting the white collar justice community. Founded by husband and wife, Jeff Grantand Lynn Springer in Greenwich CT in 2012, we incorporated as a nonprofit in Connecticut in 2014, and received 501(c)(3) status in 2015. Jeff has over three decades of experience in crisis management, business, law (former), reentry, recovery (clean & sober 17+ years), and executive and religious leadership. As Jeff was incarcerated for a white-collar crime he committed in 2001, he and Lynn have a first-hand perspective on the trials and tribulations that white-collar families have to endure as they navigate the criminal justice system and life beyond.
Progressive Prison Ministries, Inc. is nonsectarian, serving those of all faiths, or no faith whatsoever. To date we have helped over three hundred fifty (350) individuals, and their families, to accept responsibility for their actions and to acknowledge the pain they have caused to others. In accordance with our commitment to restorative justice, we counsel our members to make amends as a first step in changing their lives and moving towards a new spiritual way of living centered on hope, care, compassion, tolerance, empathy and service to others. Our team has grown to over ten people, most with advanced degrees, all of whom are currently volunteering their time and resources.
Progressive Prison Ministries’ goal is to provide spiritual solutions and emotional support to those who are feeling alone, isolated, and hopeless. We have found that these individuals are suffering from a void but are stuck, and don’t know what to do about it. Our objective is to help them find a path to a healthy, spirit-filled place on the other side of what may seem like insurmountable problems. Many of those we counsel are in a place where their previous lives have come to an end due to their transgressions. In many cases their legal problems have led to divorce, estrangement from their children, families, friends and support communities, and loss of a career. The toll this takes on individuals and families is emotionally devastating. White-collar crimes are often precipitated by other issues in the offenders’ lives such as alcohol or drug abuse, and/or a physical or mental illness that lead to financial issues that overwhelms their ability to be present for themselves and their families and cause poor decision making. We recognize that life often presents us with such circumstances, sometimes which lead us to make mistakes in violation of the law.
All conversations and communications between our ordained ministry, and licensed clinical relationships, and those we serve fall under state privilege laws. This is one reason that attorneys often allow and encourage their clients to maintain relationships with us while in active prosecution or litigation situations.
If you, a friend, family member, colleague or client are suffering from a white collar criminal justice issue or are experiencing some other traumatic or life-altering event, and would like to find a path to a healthy, spirit-filled place on the other side of what seems like insurmountable problems, please contact us to schedule an initial call or appointment.
Copyright 2020, All Rights Reserved, Progressive Prison Ministries, Inc.
“Business Talk with Jim Campbell” – syndicated nationally on the BizTalkRadio.com Network with over 300 affiliate stations, and “Forensic Talk with Jim Campbell” Monday April 27th 6 – 7 pm on 1490 AM WGCH Greenwich, WGCH.com. 1490 AM WGCH Greenwich, CT. Show features leaders in the worlds of business, politics and sports. For weekly email blast on show guests, send email to: jamesocampbell@CampbellBizTalk.com
Read Jeff Grant’s article, “I Went to Prison for SBA Loan Fraud: 7 Things You Should Know Before Taking Coronavirus Relief Money,” here
Listen on YouTube:
Jeff Grant, J.D., M.Div.is an ordained minister with over three decades of experience in crisis management, business, law, reentry, recovery (clean & sober 17+ years), and executive & religious leadership. Sometimes referred to in the press as “The Minister to Hedge Funders,” he uses his experience and background to guide people faithfully forward in their lives, relationships, careers and business opportunities, and to help them to stop making the kinds of decisions that previously resulted in loss, suffering and shame.
After an addiction to prescription opioids and serving almost fourteen months in a Federal prison for a white-collar crime he committed when he was a lawyer, Jeff started his own reentry – earning a Master of Divinity from Union Theological Seminary in the City of New York with a focus in Christian Social Ethics. He is Co-Founder of Progressive Prison Ministries, Inc., the world’s first ministry serving the white collar justice/economy exiled community. It hosts a White Collar Support Group online on Zoom on Monday evenings, 7 pm ET, 6 pm CT, 5 pm MT, 4 pm PT. The group marked its milestone 200th weekly online meeting on Mon., April 13th. Jeff can be reached at prisonist.org, jgrant@prisonist.org.
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More on SBA PPP & EIDL Loan Fraud:
Entrepreneur: I Went to Prison for SBA Loan Fraud: 7 Things You Should Know when Taking Covid-19 Disaster Relief Money, by Jeff Grant, Link to article here.
The Philadelphia Inquirer: Steal Money from the Feds? First, Meet Jeff Grant, an Ex-Con who Committed Loan Fraud, by Erin Arvedlund: Link to article here.
Fraud Stories Podcast with Mark Lurie: SBA/PPP Loan Fraud with Guest: Jeff Grant. Link to podcast here.
Forbes: As Law Enforcement Pursues SBA Loan Fraud, Jeff Grant Talks Redemption, by Kelly Phillips Erb. Link to article here.
Taxgirl Podcast: Jeff Grant talks Desperation and Loans in a Time of Crisis with Kelly Phillips Erb on Her Podcast. Link to article and podcast here.
Business Talk with Jim Campbell: Jeff Grant Talks with Jim About Going to Prison for SBA Loan Fraud and What to Know When Taking Coronavirus Relief Money, Biz Talk Radio Network, Broadcast from 1490 AM WGCH Greenwich, CT. Listen on YouTube here.
Babz Rawls Ivy Show: Babz Rawls Ivy & Jeff Grant Talk SBA / PPP Loan Fraud and 7 Things to Know Before You Take Coronavirus Relief Money, WNHH 103.5 FM New Haven. Watch on YouTube here.
Also: White Collar Week with Jeff Grant, Podcast Episode 09: Small Business Edition, with Guest Kelly Phillips Erb. Link here.
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Blessings, לשלום
Jeff
Rev. Jeff Grant, J.D., M.Div. (he, him, his)
Co-founder, Progressive Prison Ministries, Inc., Greenwich CT & Nationwide
Co-host, The Criminal Justice Insider Podcast
Host, White Collar Week
Mailing: P.O. Box 1, Woodbury, CT 06798
Website: http://prisonist.org
Email: jgrant@prisonist.org
Office: 203-405-6249
Donations (501c3): http://bit.ly/donate35T9kMZ
Psychology Today: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/jeff-grant-woodbury-ct/731344
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/revjeffgrant
not a prison coach, not a prison consultant
Jeff Grant, J.D., M.Div. is an ordained minister with over three decades of experience in crisis management, business, law, reentry, recovery (clean & sober 17+ years), and executive & religious leadership. Sometimes referred to in the press as “The Minister to Hedge Funders,” he uses his experience and background to guide people faithfully forward in their lives, relationships, careers and business opportunities, and to help them to stop making the kinds of decisions that previously resulted in loss, suffering and shame.